Sisterhood and Storytelling with Jesi Damina

Speaker A: 00:00:05

You're welcome to the Naija Filmmaker, a podcast about Nigerian filmmakers, their films, and how can build a diverse and functional industry. I'm your host, Sele Got. On this episode, my guest is Jesi Damina. She is a filmmaker, screenwriter and recording artist.

She co founded Neptune 3 Studios with her sisters and have built it into a powerhouse for young adult programming. We talk about how she got started, audience expectations, and what's next for Neptune 3 Studios.

If you're a new listener, you're welcome and I hope you enjoy. Hi, Jesi. You're welcome to the Naija Filmmaker.

Speaker B: 00:00:49

Hi. Thank you for having me. I'm glad to be here.

Speaker A: 00:00:53

Nice to have you. Okay, so can you introduce yourself in your own words?

Speaker B: 00:01:00

Okay. Hi everyone listening. My name is Jesi Damina and I am a filmmaker. Basically I screenwrite, I produce.

I'm the co founder for a production company called Neptune 3 Studios. So I am also a business owner. And it's just an interesting combination of ventures, I would say. But it all ties nicely together, thankfully.

But I think the word that would describe me best overall is a creative. Because I believe as a creative, we end up facing all these aspects of life, business development, and our passions as well.

So yes, I'd say I'm a creative.

Speaker A: 00:01:45

Okay, that's great. So you can you take us back to the very beginning, like when you started exploring your creative abilities? When was that?

Speaker B: 00:01:57

Okay, yeah, sure. Well, this all started, I would say, when I was a toddler.

And I remember that my initial interests were in the arts, writing, singing, telling stories. I remember very distinctly my sister and I, my older sister Jemima, who is also a co founder at Neptune 3. When we would be bored, she would.

She would ask me to tell her a story and I would just start weaving the most ridiculous thing that I could come up with in the moment. And I would just tell her this fantastical tale of Once upon a time there was a prince and a princess. There was.

And I would just weave this story for her. And this happened all the time. Sometimes my mom would come in the room and say, go to bed, we're still making noise.

And that was my first connection to storytelling.

I'm not sure where I got it from because it wasn't exactly a habit that my parents had developed with us, but I just know that it was soothing for both me, the storyteller, and her, the story listener, to experience that world of story. So that was. That's my earliest memory on where we started and how I got into this creative field. But growing up as well, from just Storytelling.

I would also write songs. I would also sing songs. I used to write poetry in high school. We would. All the girls would just write poems, would write spoken word.

And I didn't know that I was developing in something that I would end up pursuing as a career and as an adult. But I just know that it's something I enjoyed and really loved. So.

So when the opportunity came to study at university, my first degree, my bachelor's degree was in computer animation. And this was heavily influenced by Disney. I grew up watching animated films.

I was in love with just how the characters moved, how they talked, how you could create anything in animation. There was no limitations. For example, with live action, there's certain things you need to have in place.

There are certain things that may be out of your reach because it's just impossible. But with animation, you could do anything. Like, you could have aliens, you could have just fantastical elements just come to life.

A piece of wood could talk. You know, anything was possible. And that was the strong reason why I went to study animation.

But I didn't do anything necessarily with that degree upon coming back to Nigeria, because there just wasn't any avenue. So I was like, okay, what can I immediately do as a creative with my creative talent? So I went for my master's degree while I was doing nyse.

It was an online degree at the same school, Full Sail University. And I studied creative writing.

And this just unlocked that world for me because before I even finished that degree, I remember writing a short film called Presentation. It's still on YouTube somewhere on my sister's YouTube channel. And that was my first time writing a script and making a film out of it.

Presentation ended up being this just situational comedy of sorts. And it was fun. I loved it.

So when we were bored at home and my sister was like, okay, we need to make something, we made another short film called New Girl. And that's the start of Neptune 3 Studios entire journey.

I know that I talk about this origin story a lot, especially around the population parts where my mom was telling us, we don't need to reach out of where we are to create. Because we desperately wanted to go to Lagos because we felt that's where the industry was.

And she was like, right here, right now, where you are, you have the tools, you have the story, you have everything you need to put this film together. Why don't you guys do like a DIY thing and make your own film? And that's how Neptune 3 Studios actually started.

And it's amazing how far we've come since then because from New Girl the audience wanted a series. So we made a series out of it called Best Friends in the World. And then we made two seasons of that.

And then from there we made another series called Table for Two. This was during the Pandemic.

So it was this very limited restricted series with just like two to three main characters and it was like a 10 episode series. And that was toward the tail end of the Pandemic. But we desperately wanted to create, so we ended up making that.

And after that we made a short film called First Day, but we didn't release that till recently. But that film was probably shot two, three years ago. And then after that we made a film called Guli.

And then after that, presently we have a series called Fashion Girl. And that's just been the journey. It's a constant desire to create and doing our best to execute. Yes.

Speaker A: 00:07:03

Nice and very detailed. So I wanted to ask, you know, you talked about your mom encouraging you to. Yeah. Create from where you are. That was. Yeah, I guess. Uyo Akwae Bom.

Speaker B: 00:07:16

Yes.

Speaker A: 00:07:18

What did that environment do for you that kind of, I guess propelled you and helped you kind of grow?

Speaker B: 00:07:28

You know, the great thing about. Okay, you know, the great thing about being young and being inexperienced slash novice is you don't know what your limitations are.

When we were in Uyo, we hadn't had any real world experience, exactly. Of the Nigerian film industry. And when we were in school though, there was a lot of real world experience. Experience of what Hollywood was like.

Making films in Hollywood was like. But somehow coming to Nigeria, we understood that we needed to ditch our expectations and set up a system that would work for us.

So in setting up our own system, it was a lot of trial and error. But somehow it didn't feel like a limitation because it felt like we were building our own thing. Right.

So being in a place like Uyo, there wasn't a lot of access to resources or to actors, to crew members, to just some of the things that would have made it easier. But what it caused us to do was to invent our own systems.

Train our friends, train our family, ask for help from family members, from well wishers, in terms of location, in terms of just whatever they could offer us. And it really helped that our parents were very supportive because they offered up anything that we asked for.

And that was really the backbone, I would say, the foundation of all the stuff that we made in Uyo. Because that kind of support system, it wasn't all rosy.

There were a lot of Times we wanted to give up because things weren't perfect or because we were just drowning under the weight of what we were building. But having a support system, parents that didn't let us quit. Because I remember I would come to my dad and say, dad, I'm not doing this again.

This is the last day I will touch a camera. I'm not going back to set. He was like, no, they don't quit like that. People don't quit like that. You. You know what? Take a break.

It's okay to take a break, catch your breath, eat something nice. You know, just rest for today. Don't go back to set today, but rest.

And by the time I would rest and just do something that I enjoyed, I was ready to go back to set. Because when you love something, you can't really stay away from it. So I ended up learning how to take take breaks and regulate.

And same for my sisters as well.

It just ended up teaching us how to make our own systems, number one and number two, how to regulate ourselves as emerging business owners, as emerging creatives. And I would say that that's so looking at it now, I don't think I could be in that situation anymore.

But that's just the, I would say, curse of knowledge and of course, of experiencing something different. But back then, it was a perfect situation for us as fresh and new voices in the space.

Speaker A: 00:10:23

Okay. You talked about almost, I mean, getting fed up and quitting in some instances. And I guess something that a lot of creatives faces burnout.

What were some of those kind of scenarios that pushed you to that. That pushed you to that space that you wanted to kind of, let's say, quit or take a break?

Speaker B: 00:10:46

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. This is something that all creatives face and will face if you haven't faced it yet. But for us specifically, it was a lack of adequate help.

So what I mean by that was, in a film production, you know, you have all of these offices, all of these positions that need to be filled. So what happened was my sister and I, Jemima and I, we were the only ones running the entire production.

So I was handling production design, wardrobe. I was handling sound. I was handling so many things. Right. And Jemima was handling camera. She was also the director. She was also the editor.

I was also the screenwriter. I wrote the entire 47. Is it 47, 24 plus 17, whatever number that is, I was in. I was handling that entire number of scripts by myself.

This was hand hour long episodes by the second season. So I was doing all of that while Running production design while running sound, while running costume.

And it was all these things happening in one brain. It was impossible to not get burned out, especially because it was happening back to back to back.

And also just some of the frustrations of dealing with people because we ended up having to teach the crew members, the cast members, rather, how to be crew members so that they could help us out. Because we had all these kids that were passionate it, enthusiastic, crazy about acting, crazy about film.

So it was the no brainer because we couldn't afford bringing in people from like Lagos or just people that had experience, but we could train.

So we ended up trading and outsourcing, but we were still bearing the load, the brunt of the work, because we were the professionals, we were the ones who had the training. So that was some of the stuff that led us to that place where we experienced this heavy burnout.

And I know we stayed out of the industry for about two years, just recovering mentally from the strain of that production. It was a horrible, horrible time.

I remember thinking to myself, if anybody shows me a computer, if anybody just shows me a screenwriting software, I will shoot the computer. Like, I was violent with it. I was losing my mind.

And I know that that's a point that whatever aspect of the creative field that a creative may be in, that's burnout, that extreme fatigue or just mental fatigue, it will definitely come. But knowing that it will come is half of the. You've already solved half of the problem, right? Expecting it helps you prepare for it.

When it happened to me, I didn't know what it was. I had to learn in the process what burnout was. And I had to learn, okay, this is what's great for me. This is what's not good for me.

When I go back into production. This is how I have to manage my time and my wellbeing, that I don't experience this again, right? I had to learn while it was happening.

But a creative listening right now might be able to do better or experience it better or handle it better than I did. Because you prepare for it.

Because there comes a time when in your, in your careers and as a creative where there's things you may not be able to escape, such as handling all aspects of production by yourself, but just taking adequate breaks and eating well, you know, nourishing your body, nourishing your brain. Sleeping well, I know that creatives sacrifice sleep.

Like if a creative wants to make time for something, the first thing they sacrifice is sleep, which is the worst thing you can do to yourself because Your body will pack you up if you don't respect it. And that's the last thing you want, you know? So respecting your body, respecting your health. I started exercising.

I started taking care of my physical health as well, which drastically boosted my mental health.

And those are just things I started preparing in place so that as of today, if I ever have to be in a situation where I may be near burnout, I will know how to receive it and how to prepare myself for it or even possibly avoid it, you know? But, yeah, that's just my two cents on that.

Speaker A: 00:14:50

Okay. I mean, one thing that you definitely benefit from is the fact that you. You can create with your sisters. How.

How has that been and how has it improved the work that you do?

Speaker B: 00:15:06

It's been amazing. It's been such a blessing because thankfully, my two sisters, Jemima and Jael and I, were all interested in the same things, right?

Which is filmmaking. And apart from our diverse.

Obviously apart from our diverse interests beyond filmmaking, filmmaking is one thing that we all agree on almost to the same intensity or capacity. So when we decided to start making films through Neptune 3, everybody was just able to pour out their entire hearts and souls.

And that's just the gift of a great collaboration. Because at some point, we had to understand that it wasn't just sisterhood that was in effect here. This was true, true collaboration.

This was true partnership. And we started learning how to not disrespect that bond that we had. Because it's really easy to start.

Let me say, it's really easy to start experiencing familiarity. And they say familiarity breeds contempt.

We definitely had situations like that, but we had to learn on the job how to respect each other's office, how to give way for each other to shine in different aspects, how to just really balance all the gifts that we were able to bring and respect each other's opinions, which in any collaboration, whether it be with siblings, family or friends or complete strangers, that's something that you're going to have to figure out, is the dynamics of it. What is each person bringing to the table? How is everybody mutually benefiting?

And how are we going to do this in a way that the goal is met or the vision is met? And with my sisters, it was. It really is such a blessing to have people who. We support each other equally. And we.

Even as we grow and start to develop, to develop interest in other aspects of creativity beyond filmmaking, we're able to just support each other. Because at some point it started being that, you know, life continues to happen while you're pursuing your dreams.

And it's like, okay, now me, I really want to have multiple creative talents. Personally, if I'm not directly investing in film right now, maybe perhaps I want to invest in my music. My sisters never give me headache for it.

They're never like, oh, why are you giving up on the film thing with. They're always like, oh, you want to do your music now? Okay, great. How can we contribute to that?

And they'll help me work my schedule so that I'm able to achieve that. So that's just been really a gift and same same thing I do for them. And it's just been really a blessing.

If anybody listening has the gift of such friends or siblings or, you know, just partners like that, that's something to really hold on to and respect. And it really is a blessing.

Speaker A: 00:17:58

Yeah, lovely. So I guess one thing that you guys kind of started ahead of the curve with is making. Making programming of films and series for young adults.

Speaker B: 00:18:16

How.

Speaker A: 00:18:16

How was the reception, you know, when you started before, I guess your content started going viral and, you know, getting millions of views?

Speaker B: 00:18:26

Well, I think that's something that we had the foresight to identify early was that with Nollywood specifically, we, though we were lacking, should I say, just we weren't developing our young adult genres. And I grew up watching Disney Channel, right? So I was watching all these white people, foreign people, Asian people, show me what they.

Their teenagers could do. But I would think about how Nigerians behave at that age, and there was no representation of it anywhere.

So that was the reason why we got into that field specifically.

But the nice thing when it comes to the reception is that it seems it was something that our audience was waiting for and everybody just hungrily latched on to New Girl when it came out. I remember when we made the film and we're figuring out where do we want to put this film?

At the time, YouTube was not as dominant as it is now in Nigeria, but it was there.

a thousand views. That number: 1000

I almost, like, I almost lost my mind. I almost deleted the channel because I was like, why Are so many people watching this thing that I don't even know. It's not even that great, right?

It has so many mistakes. I was just trying to experiment. I just wanted to know, have some feedback, right? Not this many eyes on this project.

But then it was beyond our control at that point. And a lot of the comments were constructive. A lot of people were so kind, telling us what we could do better. A lot of people had praise for us.

They commended the effort, they enjoyed the film, they wanted more. And at some point it was overwhelmingly just bring more. We want some more. Why don't you guys make this a series? Make it a series.

So from the jump, it was well received and everybody was eating it up. At least everybody that came across it. Of course there was negative comments, but I don't care about. I don't ever dwell on the noise.

All that is just noise. I listened to the constructive criticism as well as the encouragement because at the end of the day, the goal is to keep creating.

So which is what we did. And from that first in, in three months, I believe it was three months or one month, just some number like that.

Between one and three months, that first episode had hit a million views and we had like 20,000 subscribers. I remember one specific comment on our. On that video was like, how do you people have one video with 20,000 subscribers?

And I was like, I didn't know YouTube very well at the time, so the comparison the person was trying to make didn't make much sense to me. Like, it didn't. I didn't understand the magnitude of what we'd done.

But as time went by and as more creators started coming to that space and I also started discovering other filmmakers on YouTube, I was like, oh, yeah, what we did really was a big deal. And I guess there was an audience just waiting for this kind of stuff. And I was really glad that we exploited that opportunity as well as.

As well as we did and continue to exploit because till date, I believe that that's a sector that needs a lot of shaping and a lot of influencing because, you know, the. Nigeria is predominantly a youth demographic. So I'm glad that we're playing into it and more people are discovering it and definitely.

Speaker A: 00:22:36

So, like currently with I guess your subscribers and people that watch your stuff, what's the split between the Nigerian audience and non Nigerian audience?

Speaker B: 00:22:49

It is a predominantly African audience. I would say the split would be 70, 30. So when I say 70, that's more Africa.

ggest demographic, but it's a: 7030

Speaker A: 00:23:19

And it seems like you have always kind of factored in your audience, you know, picking the constructive criticisms from the first video you ever dropped. How do you strike a balance with, you know, telling the stories you want to tell and also meeting audience expectations?

How do you strike that balance?

Speaker B: 00:23:40

That's a great question, because sometimes it's more. It's. I see it as a business versus creator decision, right? When you're. You're dealing with an audience that wants something and you.

You're dealing with being a creative, it's like, oh, I want to do what I want, but I want my audience to be happy. I see. I tend to see it now more as okay. As a business owner, I do want to.

I'm feeding a certain customer base, and I want those people to be satisfied and happy.

For example, if Coca Cola has like three flavors and everybody loves maybe the vanilla flavor and then vanilla, and then Coca Cola keeps giving them strawberry, at some point they're going to look for somebody who is giving them vanilla and say, you know what? Forget Coca Cola. So I tend to see it like that. But as a creative, there's something your heart is always leading you toward.

And I think it's about striking a balance. It's about, you can't really ditch one for the other. So what I tend to do, especially because I'm specifically a writer, so this directly affects me.

There's certain stories I want to tell, and there's certain stories that my audience wants to see from my business. So if what I end up doing is sort of split it to satisfy the audience and satisfy myself, I give them what they want.

But I also start to introduce them to the stuff that I like so that at some point it's a diversified audience beyond just the ones who, for example, only want to watch high school love stories. So I've given them what they want, but I also start to draw new audiences by doing the stuff I love.

Because the truth is, if you ignore what you want to do as a creative, you. You can end up, you know, you can stop creating because it's no longer satisfactory for you. It's no longer satisfaction satisfying.

You're no longer feeding that thing that drives you. So you have to find a balance that works for you.

From a purely business standpoint, someone would say, oh, give the audience everything that they want, you know, because sometimes they'll even tell you specifically in the comments, make this character do like this. And it's like, okay, but I. If I, you know, you can't have them. You're not. They're not the puppet master and you're the puppet.

You know, you kind of have to keep control of the situation. So it's just striking that balance. I still listen to my audience. I definitely want to give them what they want.

But every once in a while, for example, if I put out five films in a year, I'll make sure that three of those are what the audience wants and two of them are experimental or what I specifically want, so that everybody's happy, at least to some degree.

Speaker A: 00:26:08

Yeah.

And Daniel, considering that you're one of the few creators kind of focusing on young adult content, why do you think, you know, it's important to tell these stories about young people and their realities?

Speaker B: 00:26:27

I think it's important because this is the generation that shapes the future. And every time you, Every time when this generation grows up, the next generation that experiences that, that, that.

That fits that teen demographic are the ones you will need to pour into because they're the ones that will grow up and shape policies, shape the future of art, of fashion. Just influencing. It's. It's a. It's a cycle, right? And it's a sort of like tuning in to that cycle at a vulnerable point so that you can influence it.

So the, the big word here is influence.

Speaker A: 00:27:05

Yeah.

Speaker B: 00:27:05

I. At Neptune 3, we are building a studio that is directly influencing what the future looks like. There's a lot of negativity in the world.

There's a lot of. Especially because of media and the Internet. Everybody knows what's going on everywhere.

It's so depressing sometimes, but it's also really inspiring because you can see some of the stuff that other people are doing across the world, right? And how young people react to this stuff is directly influenced by media. So.

So at Neptune 3, we're strategically positioned to help shape how young people view all the stuff that's happening around them. Sometimes it's not even big stuff, like wars or stuff that's happening across the world.

Sometimes it's just stuff within their immediate environment, Right.

Maybe their first love or maybe a family situation, maybe peer pressure, maybe exams, or just stuff that they're dealing with, which forms their entire world. To them, that's the most important thing that could possibly be happening anywhere.

A girl, maybe a girl has a crush on a boy and he rejects her in front of everybody. Her entire world has shut down because of their experience. An adult watching may just be like, eh, you'll get over it, you'll be fine.

But to her, her entire world is over. Right.

So making films that this demographic can relate to is directly influencing and shaping how they react to some of these world changing experiences that they have. And I believe that that's the power of being in that specific space. It's you're shaping these worldviews.

You end up creating adults who till today I reference, mentally reference things that I watched on Disney Channel. I watched Hannah Montana and High School Musical and so on and Descendants. I referenced that stuff mentally.

So sometimes and I realize how much of an impact it's had on shaping my worldview. So I want to be able to do that for the next generation.

Speaker A: 00:29:11

Yeah. Very important. Yeah. Okay, so can you mention three random non filmmaking facts about yourself?

Speaker B: 00:29:25

That's a great question. Because I, I, I, I tend to be consumed by filmmaking and it drowns out my other interests. But three random non filmmaking facts about myself.

It's okay if they're all creative, right?

Speaker A: 00:29:41

Yeah. If you can give us something else. But yeah, you can mention some creative ones.

Speaker B: 00:29:45

Okay. Okay. One major thing for me would be I'm a singer songwriter. So that's the first creative venture I entered before filmmaking.

So it's sort of a very big deal for me till date. I love to play guitar, I love to write songs.

Even this is unrelated, even in the aspects where it's unrelated to film is what I'm speaking specifically on. Because I do make music for our films sometimes but I'm talking about the part that's not related to our films.

It's just I make, I make a lot of music, I listen to a lot of music. I'm teaching myself for years and years now how to play guitar. Hopefully one day I'll finally succeed. Succeed. So that's the music aspect.

That's one another non filmmaking fact. I love talking to people. I, I don't know if I would call that networking, but not exactly networking, just not even for networking purpose.

I like getting to know people. I like community based interactions where it's like a group of people hanging out doing something that we all love collectively.

I like hanging out with friends and meeting new people. Sometimes, you know, I'm very much an introvert. Yes. So sometimes my bandwidth is not set up for those sort of interactions long term.

But I really feel refueled and recharged in the right friendship situations. They really energize me. So I like hanging out with my people. I would say say something else. I love to travel.

Yeah, I love to travel, but not for the exploration, necessarily exploration aspect of it. Just for like the, the people watching. I like the people watching in different parts of the world.

I see how other people and cultures interact and just what they consider to be normal. That may be weird to me. And just getting to know people across the world through travel. Yeah, I don't know those count, but that's it.

Speaker A: 00:31:53

Yeah, I mean that's. I was, I was about to ask you what type of traveler you are, but you have answered it.

Speaker B: 00:31:58

Yes.

Speaker A: 00:31:59

Yeah. Okay, so let's get into your process. So for you, like as a writer, what, where do you start from? Do you start from characters, theme, the visuals?

How do you kind of, I guess, how is your writing process informed? Where does it start from?

Speaker B: 00:32:23

Okay, as a writer, there's two ways that ideas come to me. There's one that I actively. There's one where I actively seek ideas and there's one where ideas just come to me.

And what I mean by come to me, say this something special sparks an idea. So I'll start with where the ideas come to me. Right. So this is my favorite type of story.

This is my favorite like story development basis or foundation where something in the real world sparks a story idea or directly becomes a story idea for me. And this happens quite often for me, which is great because like I said, it's my favorite way to start.

But I'll just be going about my day and I've sort of trained my eye to notice things or interactions or reactions, just human behavior. And I'll go with that idea and I'll go sit down with it. I have this notes notes folder where I write down all these sparks just as they are.

I don't immediately try to make something out of them. I'll just write it down. And that's because I know I will forget. And at some point if I'm.

When I'm ready to write because I try to practice writing more often these days, I don't practice writing as much as I should. So this is probably a wake up call to myself to get back to practicing writing.

But when I'm sitting down trying to develop a story, I go to my ideas folder and if one concept is strong enough to stand on its own, I'll just go ahead and start developing it. But sometimes what I have is a fraction of a concept and I'll be find other aspects.

I can even draw from another concept or merge two concepts together and I just make sure I have a central and strong premise. You know, what's the story about? What Is the what if? You know, because one kind of prompt exercise I really like is what if this happens to this?

Or this crazy bizarre thing happens? And I try to answer the what if of that question. So that's pretty much where I start. And from there the concept.

Now, it may be character or story based. I can't really tell you that it's one of the. Or plot based. Rather. I can't really tell you that it's always character or always plot.

But I tend to find out. I've come to find out that I tend to really enjoy character versus plot driven stories. I love character driven stories.

I know that my audience, and this is probably the strength of Neptune 3, is that audience end up loving these characters even beyond the situations that they find themselves. So that when that character just appears on screen, it's like they're satisfied. They haven't even done anything yet.

But the fact that the character exists, they're happy about that. So that ended up working for us. But.

So even though I have a plot, when I draw from my concepts notebook and what I have is a plot, I end up developing a strong character that drives that plot. Because I've come to realize I really love protagonists that take charge. Active protagonists, in fact.

That's the best kind of protagonist, where the protagonist is the one creating their life, not reacting to what life is throwing at them. And I really like to set up my stories in that way where I've set up my protagonist. Even though they may be first in.

In a passive situation, the inciting incident stirs them up to take control of their life, whether it's a negative or positive path they're taking.

So there's some characters that, when I say negative, there's some characters that end up doing a bad thing, but as they are doing that bad thing, it's still an active action and it helps them learn the lesson they're supposed to learn. Right? So. And then there's characters, of course, that will end up being good things.

So you have like superhero stories, like Captain America, for example. With Captain America, after he was given the opportunity to become a super soldier, he ended up being a force from.

He had always had a very strong moral worldview, so he was a force for good from the beginning. But then you have anti heroes. And I'm really starting to love anti heroes more and more. For example, who would be a great anti hero?

For example, the Wolverine. From my examples, you can tell that I really love superhero films. For example, Wolverine from the X Men films, he's not Exactly.

Morally upright and he's a bit of a chaos causer, but in a pinch, you'll see, maybe some good will come out of him. But on his own, unprovoked, he ends up just being this chaotic, rather pessimistic, sarcastic guy.

And he's a bit of a loner, doesn't really want much to do with the world. So I like characters like that. And we've seen the emergence of them more and more like Wednesday.

And you end up rooting for those kinds of people because I'm learning more and more about flawed characters and how a character's flaws connect them more to the audience than a perfect character. So this is something you may observe in my story journey or my filmmaking journey early when we made best friends in the world.

The lead character in that Olive started off as this goody two shoes, but then she was faced with the moral decision where she had to either come, she, she, her friendship was threatened, so she ended up putting an innocent person in trouble. And at the end of the day, it was like she had to face the consequences of her actions or just let herself become the villain by not speaking up.

And at that point I realized that, wow, even a good person can make a bad decision. And once as a storyteller, it's not about if the character is good from the jump or bad from the jump.

It's about the decisions and choices they have to make. You have to put them in these really, really tough situations and only two choices or only one choice can be made.

In fact, sometimes they have, quote, unquote, no choice. Right.

Those are the most interesting films to watch where the character is pushed to the edge of their seats and the only other option is to fall off. And if they fall off, what then happens?

There's a story, There's a book I've read on screenwriting that talks about how you need to take all the options away from your character till they're left with nothing. And in that moment is where you see the strength of the human spirit and what a human being can invent in order to survive.

And I think those are the most interesting kinds of stories to watch or to tell. And they end up. They end up being the sort of stories that I tend to write or I'm trying more and more to write.

It's just reflecting the human spirit and how human beings just really behave and think and act. You know, that's just a bit of my process, how it all starts for me.

But at that point, from the point where I've Determined my character and my plot to some extent. At that point, the story just takes on a life of its own. And I try to go with where the story is taking me, but that's when I have creative freedom.

Sometimes I'm working with stricter parameters, which, of course, I must then work within those parameters.

Speaker A: 00:39:50

Yeah, okay. I mean, you talked about getting burnt out, and I guess. I guess something that helps every creative is giving the material time to breathe.

And what have you learned that time does to your stories?

Speaker B: 00:40:08

Oh, you. Absolutely. That's great, because you absolutely need time. Absolutely need time. What time does is give you perspective, gives you fresh eyes.

Initially, I didn't used to understand the point of time. I used to think that I've written a perfect and great story. What am I giving it time for?

Till one time, I unintentionally, I was stuck with a project. I didn't know how to proceed, and I just was like, you know what? I'm leaving this.

I went and got immersed in something else, and I came back, like, three months later, and I was reading through it, and I had mixed emotions. One half of my emotions was, wow, I really have some great instincts. I really love how I wrote this stuff.

But the other half was like, wow, why did I do that? Why did the character do that? That's not a great. And I see now why I'm stuck, and I don't know where I'm going with this story. Right.

So it gives you perspective and it gives you fresh eyes. Because sometimes you write yourself. You write yourself, even if it's not writing.

You can work yourself into a corner, and you've kind of had tunnel vision. But giving the project time to breathe also gives your brain a chance to branch out in new avenues, to learn something new.

And when you come back, you can apply that something new to this project that's just stressing you out. So, yes, when you're burnt out, giving it time to breathe is a great tactic to reignite your passion or your strength for that project.

And sometimes it may not. Burnout may not. The response to burnout, when you take time, may not always be, oh, to come back and refresh the project. But you may need to. To.

You may need to scrap the project. You may find that you may need to.

In school, when I was in school, my professor told me, you need to be able to kill your darlings and kill your babies. Basically, get rid of everything that doesn't serve your story ruthlessly.

Get rid of everything that's standing in the way of your project, for example, you're making a film and you have this very specific vision. You want it to be like Martin Scorsese or you want it to be like just somebody you really idolize.

Sometimes you need to let, let go of those expectations and let the project be what it needs to be. And that's what time does for you, just allows you to just have fresh perspective, you know.

Speaker A: 00:42:26

Yeah, okay. You know, you talked about, you know, making young adult content and the audiences having expectations.

But also like a thing to do is as a filmmaker, you also make things that you want to make. And for you, what kind of stories beyond young adult content are you working on? Are you looking to work on in the future?

Speaker B: 00:42:56

Personally, I've started developing more and more a love for how should I frame this more intimate stories. So what I mean by that is human perception of the most mundane things. And I think that's where we may start to see some of my own storytelling.

That's the direction it may start to go in the nearest future and not so long from now. Because as much as I love informing the young audience through film and connecting with them through film, I also really love.

It's not just about, should I say family friendly, PG type stories that I may end up developing.

I want to be able to take on a more risk angle with these stories where it's more intimate and we're able to see just what or what exactly happens when maybe it's your character's first sexual awakening. This is something that had a thought about for a minute, this particular topic, because we see it talked about in spaces but on the Internet.

And you'll have you, you come upon like a Instagram reel and a character, maybe Tarzan from Disney's Tarzan the animated film.

They'll post a clip of him and you'll see in the comments, all these girls are like, oh my gosh, Tarzan was my first crush, was my first sexual awakening. And I remember when I came across something like that, I was like, what the heck is a sexual awakening?

There's something like that that exists, you know, and this is just stuff that to the average person in an average conversation may seem sort of like out there.

But it's really normal that you come to realize that there's so many people who just subdue these aspects of their lives or these perspectives just because it's not exactly our. Doesn't exactly fit our definition of what's family friendly.

But I dare say it's even more family friendly than a lot of other things that we tend to Focus on. Right. Talking about. So that. So that it presents parents the opportunity to talk about these things that their teenagers are definitely going through.

And then there's other kinds of stories I want to tell, of course, with more adult actors, but I'm very big on love stories, so my. My film, my filmmaking will always center around some sort of romance.

But I really love love stories that's about endurance and patience and just sort of long suffering. I remember seeing this film, Forgotten Love, on Netflix. It's a. I don't know if it's German or Polish, I forget, but European.

And it was really amazing just how they took their time establishing the world of this doctor who ends up losing his memory. And then in the time when he lost his memory, his wife had run away with someone else and he had lost contact with his daughter.

And then years and years later, as a man with no identity, he ends up being reintroduced to his daughter's world. Of course, they don't know who the other person is. They don't know who they are. But. But there's this undeniable connection between them.

And of course, they end up, you know, discovering that, you know, they're related. But it was such a beautiful story, and I'm sorry if that sort of spoiled it for anybody, but it's worth watching, is watching.

It's called Forgotten Love on Netflix, and those are just the kinds of stories that I will end up leaning toward.

You know, stories that are more risky, quote unquote, in the young adult space, but also adult stories that lean on endurance and long suffering and patience in love.

Speaker A: 00:46:47

Nice. Okay, so at this point, I want you to tell us one film that is probably like your favorite film or series that you enjoy watching.

Speaker B: 00:47:02

One of my favorites, because my favorite can never be just one. There's a lot of favorites for different reasons, but one I can say a film or series. One of my favorite series of all time.

And I watch this series every time I get a chance to have enough time. It's a series called Gran Hotel G R A N. It's a Spanish series. It's a telenovela of sorts.

I say of sorts because it's not as long as your traditional telenovela, but it's also Spanish, so it's really heavy on the melodrama. It's called Grand Hotel, and I think there was a time it was on Netflix.

I don't know where you'd be able to find it now, but it's really just amazing characters, amazing story development, very satisfying ending, very memorable characters that stay with you till Today, after I saw it the first time with my family, we still reference those characters in our everyday lives. It was hilarious. It had action, romance, just all these aspects going on. It just really served a full meal.

And I think about it often, actually, and I challenge myself mentally all the time to do something like that at some point in my career. But I think had three seasons or six seasons. I actually forget all the particulars, but it's definitely worth a watch. Grand Hotel.

Speaker A: 00:48:30

Okay, thank you. Okay, so you and your sisters created your system with Neptune 3 Studios, and you have created mostly for YouTube.

Can you talk a bit more about your, would I say, interactions, the limited interactions with the wider Nigerian film industry?

Speaker B: 00:48:58

Yeah, sure. Honestly, it ended up being like this because of how we started.

We didn't have a traditional start in Nollywood where, you know, you get to work with eps and work with just other established voices at some point, or at least get a chance to grow up the ladder because we ended up being completely independent out of the. Out of the center of the industry, which is Lagos or is Lagos as of now. And we were in. We also, we were completely isolated.

But at the end of the day, in the past couple years, we've managed to just really explore more of Nollywood itself and see that we are an arm or a branch of Nollywood. We are in Nollywood, but it's just a division that is still developing.

And I've looked for many, many times I've looked for ways to integrate Neptune 3 with traditional Nollywood, to be able to work with other just known or established houses or people in Nollywood.

But because of how drastically different our goals are when it comes to filmmaking, the best it's ever been able to become is just acquaintanceship or friendship.

Not particularly collaboration yet, but I see that with the emergence of a lot of Nollywood titles on YouTube, which is our domain, we're starting to see more common ground or opportunities for collaboration. Because at some point we will end up intersecting.

Hopefully at the end of the day, a studio like Neptune 3 only serves to accept, expand, or to add to the interpretation of what Nollywood means. Because Nollywood is not just one genre of films, you know, family movies or drama or, you know, it's just not one definition.

So we're adding to it, hopefully, and we continue to look out for opportunities for collaboration because that's the only way that the entire industry grows. And yeah, so a lot of people have asked me from time to time that why do you guys separate yourselves or keep yourselves separate from Nollywood.

And I correct them that we're not keeping separate. Where it's like you're drawing a line and somebody's coming from one end and another person's coming from the other end.

And at some points you'll meet in the middle. So that's kind of what we're doing, is drawing the line from the other end so that we meet in the middle.

Speaker A: 00:51:31

Okay, so what would you say is a lesson that you have learned on your filmmaking journey that still guides you today?

Speaker B: 00:51:44

A lesson I've learned on my journey that still guides me. I would say it's don't let anything stop you from doing.

Over the years, there have been multiple excuses I could have come up with that would get in the way of making the film or writing the script or, you know, just continuing to experiment in this space. And a lot of them are valid. I wouldn't say that you should ignore that inner witness or the circumstances.

But I will say that you should solve those problems. Don't let them stop you from executing.

Because one thing is, I wouldn't call this a regret, but at the time, during my burnout, I wish I had found the least possible way to continue to do rather than staying away completely.

Because the more you do, the more you grow, the more opportunities come to you, the more you learn, the more you become capable and you grow confidence. And there's just no other way to gain any of those things except by doing so. Even if all you have is a phone and a friend, then work with that.

That cannot be an excuse or a limitation. It is an avenue. We need to start seeing limitations as opportunities. Specifically in the film world.

As Nigerians, we're very resourceful people, were very dogged people, were the most aggressively developing nation of people.

And sometimes I see a limitation specifically in filmmaking where it's like we want all these parameters to be in place before we allow ourselves to make a film. But we forget that these parameters were set by a nation that is so much more advanced than us.

And we can't be forcing ourselves to operate at their standard. We. We have the right to make films at a different standard.

I wouldn't call it a lower standard per se, but a different standard than what Hollywood makes.

And if Hollywood itself did not start by experimenting on these things that have turned out to become the standard today, we wouldn't have what to reference. So in the same way, we must experiment in ways that serve ourselves at the level that we are at. We must not let anything Stop us from doing.

Speaker A: 00:54:16

Definitely. And I mean what you said is just the perfect setup for my next question.

So you have had your system at Neptune 3 Studios and you have started making inroads to I guess traditional Nollywood and you've seen how things work for you.

What is one major improvement that you would want this film industry to kind of make for, for our lives as filmmakers to be better, for the industry to grow, for us to get, I guess, monetized better and all that?

Speaker B: 00:54:57

Yeah, one improvement is we need to tell better stories. So I know that that's such a simplistic and generalistic statement to make, but I'll explain.

Nollywood is not void of technical quality, technical excellence. We have amazing technical skills. You see films that have come out of late and it's just mind blowing.

The camera quality, the production design and all these things just shine. But I would say we lack the most when it comes to not just good stories, but efficient stories.

And what I mean by that is stories that hit all the pleasure centers that the viewer is expecting. Because people come to watch films for entertainment primarily.

And it's not entertainment doesn't necessarily mean expectations, explosions or fancy dresses or just glamour. It also means the dopamine that a scene, a well executed scene can give you.

We have brilliant actors and we have people that can, you know, interpret wonderfully. But sometimes the scene does not set up, set them up for that greatness and does not set the story up to please the viewer.

That there are, should I say there are rules in screenwriting that I don't believe we're at the stage where we can flout them because sometimes these rules were made to be broken. But I think we still need to strictly stick with those rules. I would love Nollywood to make a lot more simple stories.

Simple but well written everyday stories about. I'm big on love, so I'll say about love. But a well executed love story.

I would love Nollywood to write stories about just day to day challenges, experiences with family. Just things that don't require much technical know how. But sometimes that's where the difficulty is.

It's just I don't have anything that can cover up.

I'm only left with a good script and actors because sometimes people may tend to hide behind big shootout scenes or just big, big things that cover up for a week or they think will cover up for a weak story. But a weak story always stands out, unfortunately. So more investment in telling good stories.

There's great storytellers out there in Nigeria and then the Nollywood space. But I think it's. It's maybe not enough development time. Maybe producers are shortening the turnaround time.

I don't think people have enough time to write the story and come back, reinspect it, and be able to use a year to properly develop a story. I know that some writers are turning over their scripts in three weeks. That's crazy. We shouldn't be doing that. Because stories need time to breathe.

You need to be able to come back to it a few months later and you do it the justice it deserves.

I've seen Nollywood films where I was like, this film could have benefited from two more drafts and it would have been there because the idea is fantastic. It's just this premature execution of screenplays.

So that's what I mean when I say better stories because the concepts are solid, but the final draft needs to be given closer inspection.

Speaker A: 00:58:35

Definitely. Okay, so what advice would you give a young Nigerian who wants to start filmmaking but doesn't know where to begin?

Speaker B: 00:58:48

Watch a lot of stuff and then start. So what I mean by that is you may have seen a lot.

Of course, if you're aspiring filmmaker, you have already seen a lot of movies and that's probably what inspired you to come into this chaotic world. But apart from just watching films, watch how other filmmakers do stuff. Find as many behind the scenes as you can. There's a wealth of information.

Back in the days of DVDs, I would watch these like directors commentaries and producers commentaries. I would watch the behind the scenes. I would just watch how films are made across the world.

And that sort of stuff is what comes when you encounter a problem as you're starting journeys. It inspires you or informs you on how to solve your own problems. It allows you to be creative with your problem solving.

So watch a lot of stuff and expect to solve problems. Because if your first problem is, I don't know where to start, then solve it.

Pick up a camera, find out, even Google, how do I start making my first film? Knowing where to start is not necessarily the problem. I think it's just the order sometimes messes people up. It's like, what do I need?

Obviously, if you. If you don't know where to start, I'll even give it to you right now. You don't know where to start. You're a filmmaker.

The first thing you need is a good script. Don't start any other ads, don't look for any other person. Don't look for any other crew. Don't look for anything until you have a good script.

And what makes a good script, that's something you ought to know. Does have a compelling premise. Does it start off with a strong inciting incident?

Is there a middle point where the character has faced like the heights of his issues and now he's at the point where he listened through to the end? Is it compelling of your own time? Does it force you to invest your time?

Are you interested up until the very end, the very resolution, and it's the resolutions as it satisfactory. Just find out what makes a good story and then have that good story. And from there just start. Pick up your phone.

Nowadays we are privileged that technology is so within reach. We have films that can film amazing. And don't look for camera, don't go and rent camera, don't go and rent lights, don't rent anything.

Carry your phone and shoot it just like that. There's so many tricks and hacks on the Internet for how to do film phone.

And I think that's where anybody with a limited budget resources, even if you have the resources, don't waste them experimenting. Because your first 10 films will be experiments. Till date, I'm experimenting.

I can never call anything that's come out anything less that I've personally done less than an experiment.

It's all experiments, trying to find out what works, how to execute certain types of scenes, deal with different characters and moods, different production design and all of that. So it's all experiments. And don't be afraid. If you're going in knowing that you're expecting to experiment, then there's less pressure.

Speaker A: 01:01:48

Nice. Okay, so I'm about to introduce like a new Niger filmmaker tradition.

Speaker B: 01:01:54

Okay.

Speaker A: 01:01:55

And it is where our guests will recommend a movie for the audience to watch. So what is your film recommendation?

Speaker B: 01:02:06

Hmm. My film recommendation for today because it may be something else another day. Let me see what's happy in my heart right now.

Parent Trap. The Parent Trap: 2000

There's the one shot, the one with Lindsay Lohan, because there's two parent traps, if not more.

Disney has made one back in the 90s, but the one with Lindsay Lohan, I love that film and I recommend it specifically because it has this really filmy look that's so nostalgic. You really feel like you're in the middle of. Of another world. It just has this comforting feeling. It's a comfort film.

I love the story Lindsay Lohan was brilliant in it for a year. I don't know how old she was, but she was pretty young. That was probably her first role, maybe. Amazing cinematography, amazing lighting.

Dennis Quaid was in it. I forget the name of the actress in it. I think she's deceased. But all of them were just amazing, amazing, amazing. It was fun. It's like the perfect.

If Neptune 3 were to go back in time and make a film, that's the film we would make. And the writer was Nancy Myers. And Nancy Myers is brilliant. I just love the trajectory of her career from a film like Parent Trap.

She also went on to make the Intern, which has Anne Hathaway. And I don't know why his name is escaping me right now, this elderly man. I forget his name, which I shouldn't be forgetting his name.

But anyway, Nancy Myers wrote it and she's brilliant. So the Parent Trap is my recommendation.

Speaker A: 01:04:04

Okay, thank you very much. So what's next for you? What are you working on?

Speaker B: 01:04:10

I'm working on an anthology series, actually. I'm in the middle of writing a bunch of films, short films. They're about 30 to 40 minutes.

It's probably the next thing that will come out of Neptune 3. Funny because I haven't even pitched it to my co producers yet. But it's definitely the thing I'm working on and I know it's what we're going to make.

It's our strong. So this is also a strategic decision that we're making. A business decision, not just a creative one.

There's lots of limitations we experience as well, even as a studio that has come this far. And this is a strategic business decision so that it allows us to make films and also appease our audience because they want a lot more from us.

And sometimes the turnaround time on a series or a feature length is just too long. So with shorts, we're able to just have the best of both worlds somewhat. So let's see how it goes. Like I said, constantly experimenting.

Speaker A: 01:05:15

So, yeah, definitely looking forward to it.

Speaker B: 01:05:20

Thank you.

Speaker A: 01:05:22

And how can people basically keep up with your work? Where can they check for updates and all that?

Speaker B: 01:05:31

They can find us on YouTube. That's our primary base. YouTube. Neptune 3 Studios. We're a verified channel.

And then you can also find us on social media, Instagram, Facebook, you can find me there. Jesse Damiana. You can also find Neptune 3 Studios. I think once you just follow either of those accounts, you'll find the rest of us.

But yeah, YouTube is our home base for now. Neptune 3 Studios all right.

Speaker A: 01:05:58

Thank you, Jesse, for coming on the Nigerian Filmmaker.

Speaker B: 01:06:02

Thank you so much for having me. This was a great conversation.

Speaker A: 01:06:05

Yeah, it flowed perfectly. Like, probably the best.

Speaker B: 01:06:09

Yeah.

Speaker A: 01:06:09

Thanks.

Speaker B: 01:06:10

Thank you.

Speaker A: 01:06:11

We have come to the end of this episode. Remember to rate and review the podcast. You can also follow me on Instagram, Facebook and X at Selega Film and the podcast at njafilmpod.

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